This is the second of a series of alumni interview spotlights that will profile graduates of the Consulting Training Program and their advice for actively recruiting Wesleyan students.
Marcus Sweeney (class of 2021) is one of the founding parters of Consulting Pathways. Last May and from September, he worked at PWC, and will be joining Bain at their texas office in late March. As an involved alum of Consulting Pathways, he is still largely involved with the leadership team and club decision making. Nominated by Consulting Pathways leadership members as one of the most talented networkers, we are delighted to have had the opportunity to interview Marcus about his experiences and tips.
Consulting Pathways: How did you first get into networking?
Marcus Sweeney: That’s a great question. I think that honestly, I got into networking before I was sure of my interest in consulting. And I used networking to actually ascertain that I was interested in consulting, because I figured the best way to really decide if it was for me, was to speak to people that were in consulting and figure out if that’s how I wanted to do it.
After my sophomore year at Wesleyan, I was in a sales oriented financial advising role. And when I realized that I didn’t want to do that, and ended up landing on consulting for a few different reasons.
I utilized mostly LinkedIn, and looked at basically every Wesleyan alumni that had gone into consulting at different firms. I just sent a short message through LinkedIn to connect with those people and learn more about their experiences getting into consulting from Wesleyan, and the experiences that they had at whatever firms they were at. And this really helped me get a feel for the differences in experiences depending on which firm you’re at, whether you were at McKinsey, Bain, BCG, or maybe a big four firm, or maybe, you know, an L.E.K., or an Accenture and help me understand where I thought, if anywhere I could see myself fitting in. So that was kind of how I first started networking. And it definitely hasn’t stopped. It’s only picked up throughout the years.
CP: What were some of the biggest mistakes that you find looking back you made when you first got into networking?
MS: When I think about mistakes, I think about areas that I really saw myself improve upon over the years. And I think that the biggest mistake that I made was initially not doing enough homework on the person on their firm on their position. And then I actually, of course, rectified that and started doing research. But then I started to do too much research. And I would build up an agenda that I wanted to stick to really, really strictly instead of understanding that every conversation was going to ebb and flow. And I didn’t have to, you know, hit a bulleted list of questions in every conversation, and this really helped me understand who consultants are, who at the end of the day, they are, you know, they’re people, people. It’s a very person oriented, relationship oriented and communication oriented business. And so I think that those mistakes that I had are probably pretty common. And after realizing that, at the end of the day, this is really just a conversation and these people are here to help. It helped break down the formality of initial networking calls regardless of level.
CP: How do you usually initiate a connection and maintain your relationship?
MS: I’ll typically reach out to reach out to somebody that I’d like to connect with, for whatever reason, maybe they are somewhere that I want to be, maybe they’re somewhere I think I might want to be, or whatever, they have an expertise on some kind of certain subject that I want to learn from, or maybe they just seemed like an interesting person, I want to connect with them. So I’ll reach out, try and keep a pretty short, succinct message of you know, Hi, I’m so and so. This is why I would like to connect, you know, do you have some time? Maybe whatever, in the future at a certain date, maybe next week, you know, Friday, whatever day it might be? I’ll definitely do my research before chatting with them and understand exactly what I want to leave that conversation with an understanding of. And so that way, I’m coming in with the right mindset, such that if the conversation does take an unexpected turn, like maybe we both have a certain interest in Texas barbecue, or tennis, for example.
I really just think of it as like subjects I want to talk about in that conversation, like you always really do want to take some time in the beginning to find whatever that connection might be, or that shared interests to make it feel less formal. So you want to figure out who they are as a person before you start talking about their work, because that’s really important. And it’s also really important to allow them do the same to you to figure out where you’re coming from, how you’re seeing things, you know, are you a sophomore, or freshman that’s, you know, heard the word consulting, but doesn’t know what they are and never done a case interview? Or are you a senior or a junior, that is dead set on consulting, you’ve already done a couple dozen case interviews, and you really want to talk about the nitty gritty. It’s really important to kind of share your perspective and where you’re coming from at the beginning of the conversation, then you go through it with, you know, research, the research that you’ve done before.
And afterward, you mentioned staying in touch this is super, super important. Because consulting is relationship oriented business, if you really want to get the most value you can out of networking, it is not just about you know, being a professional communicator, being a professional, you know, coffee chatter, it’s about ending the conversation saying something along the lines of, you know, “thank you so much, if you happen to have a moment in the field that like a different date, and you’d be willing to run through a case interview, like, Would that be okay?” – Such that they could give you a mock case, if that’s what you’re looking for, or maybe you know, you aren’t looking for a mock case for them, if they’re like a partner or something like that, that wouldn’t make sense to get a case from them. And you just send them, a couple emails a year, saying Happy New Years or happy July 4, that’s a great way to make sure that you aren’t just another coffee chatter that never follows up, and that you actually do try and form relationships with those people.
CP: How was it like breaking into the behavior for you? Was there a sort of wall to break or did you jump straight into it?
MS: I think that there wasn’t too much of a wall for me. I was trying to be pretty conscious about it. And obviously, I had other great students that are in similar positions to me, such as Catherine and Eunes, so we were able to kind of share best practices among ourselves. But something that did really help me is to actually keep a list of the people that I chatted with on a Google Sheet.
On it I had people that I’ve networked with, and I actually even started doing that within PwC. I had a list of everyone I’d met and how I met them and what our involvement was. And so that way, when it did come time to send an update email, I would have that list basically already set. And it would be really easy to kind of see exactly who I needed to email. And I would say, you know, pretty similar things, short and sweet, but just as a refresher to kind of keep that relationship going.
And that proved to be really helpful for me, especially with Bain, when I did end up transferring the partner that I’ve connected with in the Texas offices, he was extremely helpful and is a great source of encouragement for me going through the process, and also just advice through it as well. And he was somebody that I had maintained a relationship with for 15 months, if not a year and a half. So this stuff really does work. And I was really happy to see, obviously now I’m experiencing the fruits of my labor a bit as I’m transitioning to Bain, which is my number one choice consulting firm overall.
CP: As a follow up question: When you say you emailed people, did you ask for their emails? Or did you mean like, you just kept a list and you message people on LinkedIn? And some people you had their emails, email those?
MS: Sure, that’s a good question, how to get emails. A lot of times, they did give it to me. Other times, different firms use different standardised breakdowns for emails. So sometimes it’s first name, dot last name, sometimes it’s last name, dot first name, last name, underscore first name. So if you know someone’s name, and you know the breakdown, or the formula, like you can go and fill it out. But I would always send a follow up email after your chat saying like, thanks for chatting, I found it really insightful to talk about this. Best of luck moving forward, look forward to staying in touch. And that way, you can be sure you have an email. Otherwise, you can totally just ask, you know, I don’t know, it’s not weird. Consultants are always happy to chat and be helpful. That’s what in essence they’re doing for a living, they help clients solve really tough problems. So I wouldn’t be afraid to ask. I think that that’s just also a life lesson: you’re rarely going to get something that you don’t ask for, right?
CP:As an undergraduate, there are oftentimes situations where you reach out to someone you would love to have a conversation with and don’t get a response. I don’t know if this is something you encountered, but if it was, how did you go about navigating that?
MS: Sure. I mean, the truth is that you never know when you’re going to catch somebody at a good time or a bad time. And if you don’t ever hear back from them, you know, that doesn’t mean they don’t like you, it doesn’t mean that they don’t want to connect necessarily. It might mean that it’s not a good time. But it happens with everybody. So I wouldn’t be discouraged by it, it’s definitely a volume business.
At the same time, maybe they just don’t think that it’d be worth their time because of your age or level of experience, which is fine because it’s totally their prerogative. So I wouldn’t be discouraged at all – you can always try and reconnect later.
What I’ve found is that Wesleyan consultants are on the whole, very receptive to helping out undergrad students. So I think that that’s something I really enjoyed. And something that was really positive for me learning about consulting is how helpful not only consultants, but Wesleyan consultants were.
Otherwise, if there is somebody that you really do want to connect with, there are always other ways to get in contact with them, maybe through a referral from somebody else. Maybe if you talk to somebody from the same firm, you know, you could ask: Oh, are you close to this person? You know, maybe I studied the same thing as this person. Could you introduce me to them? Would you feel comfortable introducing me to them? So there are always other ways to get involved.
Funny that you bring that up, there’s a very, very senior Bain partner, who’s the global leader for their ESG practice, out of Amsterdam that I have never been able to speak to, until I joined the Bain team. And now I have a touch point with him this Friday. So that was somebody that never replied to any Wesleyan students ever. And it took me not only getting older and more experienced, but actually being in the firm, and then having to reschedule four times to actually get on his calendar. So for lack of certainty, the big takeaway is not to be discouraged.
CP: To pivot a little bit, what were some of the best networking experiences you’ve had, and the things you think made them the best?
MS: I’ve had so many really good experiences with Wesleyan alumni, I don’t think I can just choose one. I think that there were some common themes that did permeate through a few different ones that I found really, really impactful.
I found that when I had really done my research beforehand and knew a lot, knew a decent amount about the firm they were in, the role they were in, and was really clear about what I wanted to gain from that conversation, that I always left feeling like it was a net positive.
Another thing I found really helpful was when I didn’t treat it like an interview, and I just treated it like a real conversation where I was candid, and wasn’t trying to act like a professional. I obviously was very polite, courteous, you know, etc. But when I really realised that these are actual people on the other side that just, you know, happen to have a job and consulting that you want to learn about, I found I was able to get a lot more value out of the conversation by being just totally straight up with them. I mean, they’re Wesleyan alumni, they ate in Usdan, you know, they live in the Butts, they went to Freeman if they were on an athletic team, so they’re very similar backgrounds to you. And they understand that it can be difficult sometimes to go directly from Wes into consulting. So they’re always more than happy to help. And I think that being honest and candid with them is probably the best way to go about it.
CP: When you were getting to know someone, what were some questions you asked to help break the ice a little bit and establish a friendly ambiance?
MS: It definitely differed, as I gained a better understanding of consulting over the years. The questions that I asked were really determined by what was important to me.
So when I was an upperclassman, looking at consulting firms that I wanted to start out at, and I thought, what’s really important to me, when I start my professional career? I think I realised those were mentorship as well as feeding consistent feedback. Throughout my time playing tennis and being on the Wesleyan team, I grew to understand that I learnt best in an environment with constant transparent feedback. So with that in mind, a lot of question that I asked almost every single time – it didn’t matter if they were older, more tenured consulting members, or really young, because they could be on either side of mentorship and feedback – was, you know, something along the lines of two things that are really important to me, as I began my career, our mentorship and feedback, you know, could you speak to the mentorship opportunities and feedback loops that exist at your firm? What have been some experiences that you’ve had with them?
I would also always ask what interested them in the work they did and why they enjoyed consulting, as well as what kept them going back to consulting as an industry and their particular firm. From those questions, I was able to understand that person on a deeper level. So I think those are a few different things I kept top of mind going into each conversation. It always differs depending on specific circumstances like departments, they were in or whatnot. But as far as the general overview, I think that’d be it.
CP: As a professional now, what is your attitude towards networking with Wesleyan students?
MS: I like that Wesleyan students are curious. I mean, I’m happy to help. I played a big hand in establishing the Consulting Pathways club. So it’s important to me that Wesleyan students are interested in consulting. I’m really happy to see that Consulting Pathways has taken off in the way it has. So to be honest, I just like seeing students that are interested in learning about, you know, my path, or have questions that I think I can help with. I think that’s what I’ve liked seeing the most.
CP: If you can give yourself some networking advice, as an undergraduate, maybe two, three years back, what would it be?
MS: I think it goes back to some of the mistakes that I made. Remember that these are people that you have very common experiences with, if they are Wesleyan alum you lived and ate in the same places. These are not super humans. I used to put them up on a pedestal, especially the older consultants that were maybe from the most prestigious firms. I used to think that they were just so different from me, and I was so so so far behind them. And the reality is you’re not. Even if performance varies, you might well have taken the same classes or done the same majors. Remember that these are people and they are taking time out of their schedule to help you in any way that they can. They’re not going to judge you on the quality of questions you asked (like, maybe a little but) they’re there to help. And to be candid, is the most efficient use of your time.
CP: How much do you think networking has helped you in your consulting career? And how have you utilised it to kind of get to where you are now?
MS:
I think it’s helped me immensely.
I think it’s best to think about networking in two contexts: before I joined PWC and after I joined PWC.
Before PWC, I used networking to get interviews at the top three strategy firms. That was basically what really helped me do it. And when interviews are so selective, inherently, networking is what can really give you a leg up if you can do that effectively, and get support from somebody that’s higher up. I mean, I already mentioned my initial relationship with networking was learning about what consulting really was, and I don’t think I would have learned as quickly or as transparently, had I not done that. How this context really helped me was learning what consulting was and then actually getting interviews and being prepped for interviews.
For the second context, networking allowed me to expand my circles, especially in a virtual environment where I wasn’t meeting a lot of people face to face and didn’t have any kind of organic interactions. I mean, I went into the office probably a dozen times over six months. So networking really helped me meet other people that were in my department, seeing as how my department in Boston at PwC was 100 people, and after six months I didn’t even know half of them. But I was able to meet so many, both in Boston and around the country, because I kept the log. I continually try to follow up with them, over pings over, you know, emails, over happy hours, etc, trying to set up events with them. So it really helped me make consulting a more personalised experience, or more person centred, as opposed to me only just knowing my team. But that really has to do more with the virtual environment. So those are the two contexts that it really kind of helped me in.
CP: When you say you utilised your networking connections to get interviews, did you explicitly ask to be referred to an interview?
MS: I would always ask for a case from junior individuals, and sometimes they would offer to refer me, so I didn’t have to ask. There were definitely a couple instances where I did ask though.
CP: Lastly, after this conversation, if you were to sum up all the things you’ve said into a list of prime networking tips, what would that list look like?
MS: There’s definitely a few things that would be on that list. I think first on the list is probably being candid. Second, is to do your homework and never waste a person’s time. Third, understand your goal. Have intent behind reaching out. Fourth, maintain that relationship, which goes in hand with item number threel. If you actually have a goal behind chatting with somebody, such as working or interviewing at their company, then you should understand they probably won’t refer you after one 30 minute conversation. And as mentioned a way to really kind of form a relationship is, you know, chatting for longer and actually having a relationship and seeing how you can be valuable to them. So those would be my four different points that I would distil it to.
Want to talk to Marcus? Check out the alumni database to set up time to chat!
